Northern Chapter of the New Mexico Network for Women in Science and Engineering


(a quasi-periodical)



"The more things change, the more they stay insane"


It's been a hectic fall!! I hope to get the lunch-time talk series back on track starting in January: Let me know if you have any speaker suggestions or items for the next newletter.

The December 1997 issue follows on the August 1997 Issue. Back issues will hopefully be available on the LAWIS home page soon.

I am sending only electronic newsletters to those who email addresses I have who have not requested hardcopy explicitly. Please let me know if you prefer to get it in hardcopy format, or if you prefer not to receive this newsletter. I will be updating this mailing list soon: please let me know if you wish to be removed, or have other corrections.

Much of the content is blatently stolen from emails received. Errors are the sole fault of the editor, J. Tinka Gammel, who can be contacted to complain at 667-9149, or jtg@lanl.gov.


          A                                   *
         BCD                               ***|***
        EFGHI        Happy Solstice!       |||||||
       JKMNOPQ                              \___/
      RSTUVWXYZ                               |
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       No "L".


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1997-98 LAWIS board members:


Margo Clark


Vice President

Jenny Siders



Cass Mason



Ginger Young


Newsletter Editor

Tinka Gammel


EYH Co-Chairs

Joyce Guzik
Alexine J. Salazar



Carol LaDelfe



Amy Anderson
Trish Wright


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I'd like to begin by thanking the outgoing Board Members, and welcoming the new Board Members: I look forward to working with you. Work has already begun on our main activity for the year, hosting the "Expanding Your Horizons" Workshop, and I encourage all members to think about helping. The commitee updating the "Surveying Your Future, nontraditional careers for young women" booklet has been making progress and I look forward to seeing the revised version. As your new President, I am open to suggestions to make LAWIS a better organization to meet the needs of the membership: please let me know your ideas!

J. Margo Clark LAWIS President
Phone: (505) 665-3634 FAX: (505) 667-9726 jmclark@lanl.gov

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For those of you who missed the holiday party, Ann Mauzy sends the following "Holiday Cheer":

THE NIGHT BEFORE DEFENCE (or A Visit From Citrate)

Twas the night before defence, when all through the lab
Not a gel box was shaking, with stain or with MAb;
The columns were hung in the cold room with care,
In hopes that my protein, I soon could prepare;

The post-docs were nestled all smug in their beds,
While extracts of barley muddled their heads;
With the tech in the suburbs and PI the same,
I had just settled down to another video game.

When out of the fridge there arose such a clatter
I sprang from the terminal to see what was the matter.
Away to the cold box, I flew like a flash
But the stench was o'erpowering and I threw up beef hash.

The mould on the dampest of walls which were cold
Had the softness of kittens only seven weeks old;
When what to my view, a thing I despise
But a half eaten sandwich and four tiny mice;

With a little old scientist, so lively and galling,
I knew at a glance was Linus Pauling.
More vapid than undergrads, his charges they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them rude names.

"Now, Watson! Now Francis! You strange little modellers!
On Luria! On Bertani! You stupid old broth'lers!
To the top of the bench, to the top of the wall!
Purify! Purify! Purify all!"

As dry heaves before the commitee meeting, bend
A young student's body and his colon distend,
So up their earlobes, acytes they grew,
With a sack full of antibodies, their skin turning blue.

And then, for a second, I heard from the 'fuge,
An unbalanced rotor spinning something too huge.
Where I put down my hand, to better hear the sound,
Came the snapping of sparks from a wire sans ground.

Pauling's hair was all wavy, and I thought I must be sick
`Cause the curl in his hair looked just like a helix.
On an arm load of oranges, he started to snack
An I recalled his fetish with citrate, the quack.

His eyes were all wrinkled, but the cheeks were yet red;
Not too shabby for a man who was several years dead;
The leer of his smile was just a tad scary
And the snow on his rooftop made his head yet quite hairy;

The end of a pipette, he held in his teeth
And a pile of kimwipes lay around his big feet.
He held a small vial of something quite gel-ly,
A mercaptan no doubt, for it make him quite smelly.

He changed `round the columns, adding to the confusion
And I laughed to spite my own paranoid delusion.
A wink of his eye and a rotation of his head,
Told me whatever I drank would soon leave me dead.

He spoke not a word, just buggered up my work,
And dried all my resins, that silly old jerk.
And separating his middle finger from first, fourth and third,
That crazy, old bugger, just flipped me the bird.

He grabbed up his cohorts and ran down the hall,
And away they all flew, letting me take the fall.
That is why, dear Committee, I am sorry to say,
I need a five year extension, starting today.

An Xmas present to all from your friends at Aliquotes...happy holidays.
Randall C Willis, Publisher, Aliquotes Press
Aliquotes: A Journal Of Molecular and Biochemical Humour and Information

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The committee updating the "Surveying Your Futures" booklet, which NMNWSE distributes to middle and high school girls to encourage them to consider a career in science, is working hard to get the new edition out. Ann Mauzy (mauzy@lanl.gov, 7-5387), the LAWIS coordinator for this NMNWSE project, reports that, although we have volunteers for every topic, some volunteers have not come through yet.


Seriously, the drop-dead date is Jan 9, and if an author cannot make that date, PLEASE let Ann know so that the article can be re-assigned.

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The annual Expanding Your Horizons Conference for 8-10 grade girls in Northern NM is scheduled for Wednesday, March 25 at the Study Center at LANL.

Joyce Ann Guzik (joy@lanl.gov, 7-8927) and Alexine Salazar (alexine@lanl.gov, 7-1785) are co-chairs this year. The kickoff meeting is January 7, 11:30-1:00, in the E228 Conference Room in the Otowi bldg at LANL (beneath the cafeteria).

Please attend the meeting or contact the co-chairs if you are interested in helping: everything from workshop presenters to fund raisers to "go-fers" are need. This is a very rewarding experience!

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The NMNWSE Annual meeting was held on October 17-19, 1997, at the Vancouver Suites in Las Cruces. The first 3 talks in the Technical Symposium were presented from 4 to 7 pm on Friday evening. We met at 8:00 the next morning for the Annual Meeting and then listened to 7 more talks, with a break for lunch during which we heard Dr. Mary O'Connell speak on "Bio-Informatics, What is it?" The afternoon included a tour of the brand new Farm & Ranch Museum at NMSU (not quite open to the public). The Symposium Dinner was held at Meson de Mesilla where the dinner speaker was Donna Eichstaedt who spoke on "The Role Women Played at WSMR." The bimonthly Board of Directors meeting was held on Sunday morning and we were finished before noon.

We heard some excellent talks ranging from "Science Education in New Mexico in the 21st Century" to "Genetic Diversity of Populations Isolated by Climate Change." Two of the speakers from Los Alamos were Angelique Neuman on "Adhesion Testing of Erbium Oxide Coatings" and Jennifer Roper on "High Temperature Superconductors: Ion-Beam Assisted Deposition of Biaxially Aligned Template Films of YSZ for Long Length Coated Conductors." It was a very satisfying conference, from my perspective. We had a good turn-out and "networked" with women from many fields.

Carol LaDelfe, Past LAWIS President

PS: The state officers for this year are: Kelly Bitner, president Karen Saenz, vice president/president elect Jennifer Siders, Secretary Deborah Kubicek, Treasurer Lynda Towers, past NMNWSE president

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Tentatively scheduled to speak in January and February at the LAWIS Lunch-Time Talk Series are Laura Kraemer and Ann Pendergrass. I'll be sending announcements for their talks as soon as the dates are set. I am sure they will be very good talks and look forward to seeing you all there!

The planned trip in October to the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant (WIPP) near Carlsbad, with a side trip to see Trinity site, unfortunately had to be cancelled. We are going to try again on April 3-4 (since Trinity site is only open 2 days a year - the first Saturday in April and October). I am definitely going as that date is my (egad!!) 40th birthday and somehow is seems fitting to spend it looking at a dump and where something blew up.... Seriously: we have reports that it is a pretty good tour, so mark this date on your calendar: I'll begin arranging the trip about mid-March. I still have a few copies of the WIPP brochure Howard Vasquez of the Santa Fe WIPP Information Center handed out. If anyone is interested in looking at them, let me know and I'll be happy to stick a copy in the mail.

On September 4, Carol Mooney, at the time GRA representative at LANL, gave an excellent talk on "Changes and Challenges in Science Careers". Carol first got interested in science as a career when she saw pictures of geologists rafting the Grand Canyon in high school. (She has yet to do it herself though....) She also did some teaching of sixth graders while in high school and discovered she loved teaching. She took a geology major in college. In those days geology=oil, and she worked for an oil company for 5 years. But with the end of the "windfall profit" days, the job market collapsed. She saw an opportunity in making maps (before the days of Computer Aided Design; CAD), which she did as a private contractor and became quite successful. Computer technology rapidly advanced, and she decided to go back and pursue her love of teaching before CAD made her map making career obsolete. She got a masters degree in teaching. She taught for a while, including high school geology in Los Alamos, and then was selected for the SERS program and discovered that the life of a teacher was pretty hard compared to a LANL scientist. (This program has since been cancelled as none of it's graduates have returned to teaching as they all discovered this same truth -- an unfortunate commentary on the value our society places on arguably the most important profession for the future of mankind.) She also did an NSF program in Montana where she "taught teachers" and lead field trips, but found she missed the mountains so went back to teach at Los Alamos. However, they had hired a new geology teacher and wanted her to teach biology. Rather than not use her skills, she took advantage of the opportunity to run the GRA program program at LANL. Carol emphasized that one should be aware of other opportunities and not hesitate to take them when they come along, even if it means a career change.

On October 2, Denise George of T-1 at LANL gave a most enjoyable talk to LAWIS on "Managing a Software Team". Denise began her career in computers as the field was desperate for people, even though she had no experience in the field. The emphasis of the time was "codes, codes, codes". Denise soon realized that she needed a Master's degree if she was going to be allowed to do anything fun. Things had also changed and "women were being hired to do interesting things". However, family intervened so she stayed home for a while, but found this was not for her. She then took a job managing a database on cows, where she learned among other things the role of the "clean-up bull" [I'm sure you can fill in the details...]. With the birth of ther second child she again tried her "other career", i.e. "Mom", full time, but quickly went back to work doing data displays part time ["in the days before Mac's", Denise emphasized...] In this job she learned about reactor fuel histories, doing both graphics and support codes. T-2 at LANL was very cooperative about letting her work part time to take care of her family. (They hired her when she was 7 months pregnant!) Times changed again, as they have a way of doing, and Denise found herself looking for something new. The CRADA on numerical grid generation was looking for someone to manage the software team, and Denise was able to fill the bill. The team is large in the sense of the number of divisions and interests involved rather than in the the number of people. Denise has learned that with scientists, one needs to coordinate more than manage, and that people respond to different stimuli. If you can get them to "buy in" then everything will go OK, though some people still require more prodding than others... It is a diplomatic challenge requiring "more than the carrot but not just the stick".

Denise's wise words about carrots and sticks remind me: I am looking for more "volunteers" to speak at LAWIS Lunch-Time Talks in the Spring. I'll try and avoid leaving a trail back to you if you send me names of gullible victims ....

-- Tinka Gammel Lunch-Time Talk Agitator 667-9149, jtg@lanl.gov

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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 From: Celia Einhorn <celia@silicon-desert.com>


Betsy Frederick and I are working with NM Technet with the NM High School Supercomputing Challenge and we need several kinds of mentors.


Is there anyone out there who would be willing to be an online mentor for Fortran. What is that some of you young people might ask? We already have mentors for UNIX, C++, HTML, JAVA and just hoping that someone out there would place their email for students in NM would confer with them about Fortran. You may not get much business, but we need that angle covered. Please email me if you are interested.


45 Supercomputing Advisors Needed

Welcome to the 8th Annual New Mexico High School Supercomputing Challenge -- "a program in which student teams and their sponsoring teachers work on supercomputers to solve scientific problems."

Since the inception of the program in 1990, more than 3,800 New Mexico high school students and teachers have benefitted from participation.

The Challenge is both a learning experience and a competition. Through workshops, educational materials, and the help of technical support resources, students and teachers are exposed to hands-on scientific problem solving. Teams that make significant progress on their projects can compete for awards of savings bonds and scholarships for individuals, computer equipment for the schools, and trophies for teams.

This year, the executive committee is focusing on getting each team an advisor. Please check out the role of advisor at http://www.technet.nm.org/challenge/challenge_details.html#roleadvisor

Check out the teams' abstracts at http://mode.lanl.k12.nm.us/97.98/abstracts Find the ones who still need an advisor and if that is in your area, please volunteer. Please contact the teacher through email or phone and find out how you can help. The executive committe believes that your input will help more teams complete their work.

Our regional meetings are coming up in January. We need people to join us at the Meet the Scientist Luncheons to help our teams with project design. The regionals are as follows:

- Tuesday, January 13, Eastern, Portales - Thursday, January 15, NMSU, Cruces - Friday, January 16, Tech, Socorro - Monday, January 26, San Juan, Farmington - Wednesday, January 28, UNM, Alb. - Friday, January 30, Highlands, Las Vegas

Please contact consult@mode.lanl.k12.nm.us, if you have any questions, to let us know what teams are covered and which regional session you can attend for lunch.

When you volunteer your time, please register as an advisor for the Challenge at http://www.technet.nm.net/cgi-bin/noauth/prod/chal97/req_rec.cgi/advisor

Thanking you, Betsy and Celia
Celia Einhorn celia@silicon-desert.com 505.281.1122
Betsy Frederick betsy@silicon-desert.com 505.246.9435

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You may recall some months ago I forwarded a request for information about veterinary scholarships in NM. Summarized below are the responses, should this question come up for any of you in the future. I would like to thank all those who gave suggestions.

-- Tinka

Suggested Resources:

  1. The WICHE (Western Interstate Commission on Higher Education) student exchange program at UNM Chris and Julie discuss in the next article was suggested, which is how I found out about the problems they have encountered there. (I urge you to consider writing your representative to express your opinion on this matter after reading their letter.) The WICHE program allows students interested in programs not offered at UNM to go to schools offering that program in the western region covered, and pay the same tuition. They also have scholarships available. Under the current guidelines, if you have a NM high-school diploma, and are interested in a program not offered at UNM, this may be worth pursuing.
  2. UNM-LA's Career Resource Center has a software program called Choices. This program provides current information on scholarships available from a number of sources in the US. There are two books in the reference section of the UNM-LA library. The first one is called the "Occupational Outlook Handbook," Call# REF HD5706.022 1996-97. This book provides info. on the occupation and related data. The second is "The College Blue Book," Call # REF L901 .C685 V5. This one gives about six scholarships awarded for this educational pursuit. Feel free to make an appointment for additional help at the Career Resource Center located in Building 2 on the UNM-LA campus. Phone# 662-5919, ext. 202. --
  3. The career counseling center at the High School. (I do not know what the restrictions on access are for non-students.)
  4. The Sante Fe AAUW sponsors a small scholarship for graduate studies at UNM. To find out more about it the best place to start would probably be the UNM Grad School office. If it is of interest to you and you have trouble finding out about it, Nancy Scheer, nscheer@lanl.gov, is willing to help you track this down (it is not listed on the AAUW web page).
  5. Internet: various people suggested the following web sites. Of course, some may have a "nominal" fee, some have one free search.
    Scholarships for Women and Minorities: http://members.aol.com/ox13qr/webpages/eyfswm1.html Yahoo! Scholarship Programs: http://www.yahoo.com/Education/Financial_Aid/Scholarship_Programs/ http://www2.nas.edu/cpc/index.html
    http://www.hr.lanl.gov/html/specprog/bulletinboard/ (there are 2 scholarship programs on the LANL student bulletin board)
    I'm sure there a lots more. One sure bet is to contact Veterinary Colleges (or the appropriate department for other interests), and get a list from them.
  6. For people already in school, it was suggested that the financial aid office of the university would probably be the best place to start.
  7. Student loans are somewhat easier to obtain than scholarships, and might be worth considering as an alternative for people who have not already considered this option.

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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 From: "Christopher J. Fontes" <cjf@xdiv.lanl.gov>

It's been a couple of months since I first contacted you about the WICHE (Western Interstate Commission on Higher Education) student exchange program situation. We know enough now about the situation that Julie and I are lobbying the state legislature for the upcoming session in January. The folks from the WICHE office are also lobbying for a change too. So now I'm asking you to send out a call to all interested parties who are interested in joining the lobby effort.

We all feel that the requirement of having a NM high school diploma to be eligible for the WICHE program is too restrictive and unfairly excludes residents/tax payers who might otherwise be qualified for the program. This requirement will undermine the quality of the program in the future. We have been told by WICHE personnel that the provision of requiring a NM high school diploma was a knee-jerk response to allegations that people are moving to NM from out-of state in order to take advantage of the WICHE program. We have been able to find no documents that support this allegation. In addition the same legislation officially change WICHE from a grant program to a fee-for-service program, which requires enrollees to work exclusively in NM for so many years after receipt of degree.

We are lobbying the legislature to eliminate the requirement of a NM high school diploma. The WICHE folks think the legislature will do this provided they instead require NM residency for a certain number of years (anywhere from 3-5 years is what we have heard). We feel that a requirement of state residency will allow for the consideration of those residents who have moved to NM after receiving a high school diploma from a different state.

I am not wild about the fee-for-service stipulations listed above (there are indications that this option will allow for the exploitation of newly minted graduates in certain fields). But it appears that the legislature is under pressure to get something in return for their offering of educational support. Additionally, the fee-for-service option should discourage people from wanting to move to NM, assuming that is what's really happening, just to get into the WICHE program and then go on their merry way after receiving their education.

If you could send this missive to the WIS distribution and ask for interested parties, it would be much appreciated. Below is a letter that Julie has sent to Governor Johnson and various state reps and senators. From the letter you can see that the legislation which enacted the requirement of a NM high school diploma was an amendment to Senate Bill 1115. The addresses of the governor and the representative/senator for Los Alamos are also given:

Gov. Gary Johnson State Capitol Building Room 400 Santa Fe, NM 87503 email: gov@gov.state.nm.us

Rep. Jeannette Wallace State Capitol Attn: Mail Room Dept. Santa Fe, NM 87503

Sen. Leonard Tsosie State Capitol Attn: Mail Room Dept. Santa Fe, NM 87503

A list of all the members of the state legislature can be found at:


Thanks, Chris

--- (letter from Julie to Governor Johnson follows) ---

Dear Governor Johnson:

I am writing to tell you how a recent amendment of the WICHE (Western Interstate Commission on Higher Education) student exchange program, requiring participants to have a NM high school diploma, has affected my life. And I am asking you to change the law in the upcoming legislative session.

I am a twenty-nine year old physical therapist who moved to NM in 1995. My one dream in life has been to become a veterinarian. Having finally reached a point in life where I could follow that dream, I began making inquiries in early 1997. I contacted several schools and veterinarians and they suggested I look into the WICHE program (then run by UNM). In case you are not familiar with this program, it allows certified students to attend certain out-of-state schools, which have programs not offered by any NM school, for in-state tuition.

The NM WICHE employee I spoke with in March of 1997 indicated that since I had resided in the state for two years and held a current driver's license, car registration and bank account I would be able to participate in the program. He stated that I needed to wait for applications to be printed, and suggested I call back in early May to request my application.

I was overjoyed. I was confident I would be accepted into vet school, having an excellent academic background (a 4.0 GPA Master's degree in Physical Therapy and a 3.75 GPA Bachelor's degree in Biology). I reduced my working hours as a therapist and began volunteering at The Wildlife Center in Espanola with Kathleen Ramsay, DVM, to get the veterinary experience I needed for my vet school application.

I called the NM WICHE program again in May, and was told they were in transition. Worried that the program was changing, I spoke again with several employees and they assured me that all was well and that they were just restructuring and relocating to Santa Fe. I was told to call back in July for my application.

Reassured, I made plans to leave my job and began full-time preveterinary work at The Wildlife Center. When I called WICHE back in July and was told applications were not yet ready, I was not too nervous. I again questioned the employee with whom I spoke and was told that funding was solid and that "vet-med" students were a priority.

Not until I called back in August did I learn of my dismal prospects. I spoke with Lillian Montoya-Real and was told for the first time that an amendment to Senate Bill #1115C had changed the program and that now a NM high school diploma was a requirement for participation. Essentially, I was told that there was no way I could be funded as an in-state student at any university. This forces me to leave the state to be able to afford vet school--just because I do not possess a NM high school diploma (and despite the fact that I am a tax-paying resident who is in every other way extremely qualified). What angers me so much is that I have lost a year. I now have to move and establish residency in a state with a vet school and reapply (and pay for that new application) for 1999. If I had been told earlier of the amendment, I could have established residency in another state and entered school in 1998. By not informing me of the changes in rules until late August the people of the NM WICHE program did me a great disservice. I think what upsets me most, though, is that I am being forced out of the state--out of my home--if I want to follow my dream.

The people I have spoken with at WICHE since July have been much more helpful. Lillian and Ken have been very honest and encouraging. They have both informed me that they disagree with the "diploma amendment" and feel that since this is now a "loan-for-four years of service" that the clause is redundant. They have assured me that they will lobby the state legislature to eliminate the amendment, and I promised to do my part by informing you of how this has affected me.

I ask you again to please change the law. I agree wholeheartedly with the four years of service as partial repayment of New Mexico's generosity. I would gladly serve longer--and hope to spend the rest of my life and career here. I also agree that the program should only be open to residents who show that they are "here to stay". But to require a NM high school diploma excludes many qualified residents who should be allowed to compete to participate in this program. To exclude us is unfair and will not allow some of the most qualified people to receive funding and become NM veterinarians. This will hurt NM in the long run--by diminishing the quality of services provided. Please do not allow this to happen. It is within your power to make things right. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Julie Kliesch

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(You might note most of these, except the first few, are a repeat from the last newsletter: I figure keeping these here might be useful: let me know -- Tink)

New Notes:

The marketing resource list from the Oct 20th meeting of Albq Web Women is now online at: http://www.azurecom.com/aww/marketng.htm Also, check the AWW resources links page for new links to resources in "Women, Work & Technology" and "Girls & Techology Online". http://www.azurecom.com/aww/resource.htm

Old Notes:

A 68-page report, "Pursuing Excellence: A Study of U.S. Fourth-Grade Mathematics and Science Achievement in International Context", based on test results from the "Third International Mathematical and Science Study" (TIMSS), released last November, can be obtained on the Internet at: http://www.ed.gov/NCES/timss

The July Newsletter of the Forum on Physics and Society of the American Physical Society features three interesting articles on the theme "Women in Physics: Past, Present, Future":

The electronic version of the Newsletter can be found on the Web at http://physics.wm.edu/~sher/newsletter.html (click on the link to the July 1997 newsletter).

As many of you may be aware, all references to evolution were deleted from the New Mexico State Board of Education Science Content Standards with Benchmarks for grades kindergarten through 12. The Coalition for Excellence in Science Education (http://www.highfiber.com/~dfbeck/CESE/CESEhome/html), which is chartered to improve science education and science literacy, has been actively concerned with addressing this deletion. If this topic is of concern to you, please check out their web page for membership information.

The Committee on the Status of Women in Physics of the American Physical Society maintains a Colloquium/Seminar Speakers List of Women in Physics, and a Colloquium Speakers List of Minorities in Physics. Both lists will be mailed to all physics departments this fall along with information on the APS Travel Grants Program which helps institutions invite speakers from these lists. If you are interested in registering on these lists, or browsing them to look for potential speakers to invite, see the web site at http://www.aps.org/educ/cslapp.html (or contact Tara McLoughlin of the APS, tara@aps.org, if you do not have web access).

The following articles which appeared in "The Scientist" may be of interest to LAWIS members:

A collection of resources from the Math Forum for information about women and mathematics is available on the web at http://forum.swarthmore.edu/social/math.women.html This site offers links to sites of general and historical interest, publications, programs, and major organizations. Featured sites include:

To find even more information about women in math and science, try searching the Math Forum database: http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dumpgrepform.html Enter the keywords "women science" (just the words, not the quotes).

Other websites of interest:

If you do not have web access and any of these topics is of interest to you, please contact me and I can send you hardcopies of the web sites.

-- Tinka Gammel, LAWIS Newsletter Editor, 667-9149

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The NMNWSE and LAWIS Membership Year is defined as from October 1 to September 30. LAWIS chapter dues are rebated from the state dues, so no separate dues are collected from LAWIS members. Wyona Turner is Membership Chair of NMNWSE, and a copy of the membership form is available on the web (in Adobe Acrobat format) at http://ladmac.lanl.gov/nmnwse//NMNWSE.html in the "Membership in NMNWSE" section. If you are unable to access that, Carol LaDelfe, LAWIS Membership Chair, cladelfe@lanl.gov, 667-8474, will be happy to put one in the mail to you.

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